Does God ever lead His men by discouragement? Most of the time, a pastor does not resign and move on until the church is in disarray. Is this the way God is working?
Simple question. Very complicated situation. Just challenging your cranium to house activity, rather than just serve as the soil holder for your crop of hair.
12 Days (Day 12)
8 years ago
14 comments:
Can God use whatever may happening to show you something? Could it be possible He wanted them to leave earlier, but since they didn't listen, he allowed them to suffer some things (chastisement) to show them they need to leave? I've heard of churches where pastors stayed a long time after the majority of people felt he should have left, and things plummeted until there was barely anything left.
So was it God's plan for His church to be hurt?
I dont think one would say it was God's plan for the church to be hurt. I have however talked with men before who felt as though they stayed "too long." From what i've seen the man and the church suffer in this instance. I (THINK) it (MIGHT) have to do with God's permissive will that His man and His people go through hard times.
Did Noah get discouraged before the flood came I do not know but I would think so. He stuck it out. Did Jeremiah get discouraged and he preached Gods message for many LONG years and get discouraged. I think he did as he id known as the weeping prophet. My point is they hung in there and God used them both greatly for His kingdoms work. Personally I feel one should not leave a church do to ups and down for if you do you will never stay long as any A.B.A church I know of. I believe God will give a peace to his men when the time is right. Good time to bring this one up "PROPHET".
Sometimes a pastor will get comfortable where he's at and not want to move even though the Lord is telling him he has work for him somewhere else. This is the time the man is allowing the flesh to control him instead of the holy spirit. I you are not where God wants you then you will never be happy there nor will the church
I've seen preachers stay too long (my thinking)and some leave too early (my thinking). Omly God and the preacher know for sure. Rather than a church giving up on a man, they should pray for and encourage him more. 3-1-09 is my 18th anniversary as pastor of my home church. When I came, they were ready to keep a pastor and to work together. God has blessed. My burden for the church and love for it is greater now than ever. At the last church I served as pastor, when I wanted to leave (I was there 12 1/2 years on an annual call), I put out the word and no one called. When I knew in my mind I was where I needed to be, then 3 churches called. Time went by, and my home church called. I did not need to go or want to go, but I had a great burden for my home church. After 3 days of crying and praying with my wife, I knew it was God's will (not just mine) to pastor my home church. It has been the best part of my ministry of 33 years. The old preachers often reminded me to serve where God placed me until He moved me. It is great knowing I am where God wants me to be (even though I may not know that at some point in the future).
For reference, the pastors who I've heard of that stayed too long are the ones who told me such. They explained how they became miserable and the church diminished down to nothing. One even announced to church members years before he left that he thought it was time to move on. Later, after he and the church both suffered much, he left and now gives a wonderful testimony concerning being where God wants you when he wants you. I know for a fact that staying somewhere God wants you for a short time, and leaving only 3 years later when God tells you it is time to move can be wonderful for both the church you left, the church you go to, and yourself. But ONLY because it was God's will. I also know when things happen outside of God's perfect will, much pain and suffering occurs.
As to your question about a church being hurt, God allows all kinds of hurts. God may even cause something that brings hurt (not causes hurt, but causes the cause behind the hurt). He may have many reasons for this, but if during our times of hurt, we seek God, it all turns out for the best.
The question was, "Does God lead His men by discouragement?" Not comments on the actions of others. I like the way Arch Bishop responded by saying "Mu Thinking". Friends may we not be the judge of who stays to long or leaves to early. That is all God's business.
I'm not judging actions, I'm telling the testimony given by other men which answer the question - yes. When they were there too long, they got discouraged and therefore realized it was God's will for them to have left long before.
As to myself, I've been in one situation where I felt God used certain negative situations to show me it was time to move on, though it wasn't discouragement so much as certain things which made it absolutely clear.
Remember we are still looking for a pastor! Pray for us. If anyone knows of someone, please let us know!
To answer the question in it it's simplest and purest form...No...I don't think so.
Allow me to explain in reverse...how do you know God wnats you to be the Pastor of any church? 100% vote of the Church? Big pay check? bigger church? close to family?
No...you just have an inner knowing that God wants you to be there...before i came to White Rock the Church in Arcadia (a great bunch of people) called me 100%...however I knew that isn't where God wanted me. How? I just knew it. God opened the door and White Rock called. Could I have done a good work, through the Lord, in Arcadia...perhaps yes perhaps no...I lean toward no because that isn't where God wanted me.
I think every pastor knows when that inner knowing that it is time to leave comes...sometimes in the best of times and sometimes in the worst of times.
The decision cannot be made based on results...low sunday school turnout, no conversions, people joining other churches etc. Sometimes those decreases in membership are the best thing that can happen.
Now if a pastor knows that his time is up but due to fear, pride (ie admitting failure), whatever then if his time is up God is going to make him miserable until he does what God wants him to do.
Just my two cents and I've been there boys when it's time to go and your afraid or in my case to prideful to admit failure.
Last two moves I made, were while everything was going fine.
No problems to speak of.
You will know when it is time to move, whether you have problems, discouragement or not.
Of course, if I had to pick, I would rather move while everything is going great.
The two Luellen Brothers seem to be doing great and probably better than this little country preacher did at my previous pastorates!
I'd just like to point out that if I left my church when I was discouraged I would have been gone a long time ago. I know I'm not in a pastor's shoes, but it's obvious to me, this is probably the best time to stand strong and keep the faith. Everyone wants to bail out when times get tough. Just because a pastor doesn't see the altar filled or people walking the aisle doesn't mean lives aren't being touched, trust me I know.
Battle the storms, the calm will come.
And, no, I don't believe God's plans involve a church being hurt, but we are still humans, therefore we will suffer individually and as a church.
I think I see God using discouragement with Jonah and Job. He allowed the things in Job's life to happen, then used them. If He can use them to teach things, surely He can use discouragement to teach us when to go or where to go. Also, what about Joseph's brothers leaving and going to Egypt? The famine led to discouragment, and so they went to Egypt (thus fulfilling God's prophecy, and Joseph stated that God worked in all that big hooplah)
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