12 Days (Day 12)
8 years ago
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12 comments:
I know you haven't stated your position, but merely asked a question. I'll do the same. Did Jesus ever cease to possess and exhibit perfect love? If not, could He fear?
1 John 4:18 - There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.
Perhaps he feared, yet the perfect love he possessed for mankind and the Father (in pleasing Him) is what cast out that fear so Jesus could go on and accomplish that will.
So you are saying He did fear although it was brief?
I didn't make a definitive statement. I just gave a "perhaps" scenario.
Considering the idea of Jesus fearing and that verse brought to mind a fire fighter who may fear for his life, yet knowing the little child may die, risks his life to save the child in spite of his fear. In other words, while he may still possess fear, his love, strength and sound mind allow him to forget it, put it out of his mind or at least allow other thoughts to keep the fear from paralyzing him from action.
Both comments you claim as "scenarios" lean to a yes. Might you give one to the contrary, for the sake of "fair and balanced".
A great travesty among many people today is the failure to understand the humanity of Jesus. It is easy for people to accept that Jesus was God,however, many have a problem accepting God was man. Maybe that is not true. It might be better said that many have a problem comprehending God was man. If it is an afirmative statement you seek i will be happy to provide you with one. Jesus, although existing as God, was 100% man just as you and i. Jesus teh man, not Jesus the God, was tempted, suffered, and died. Jesus the man prayed in the garden. Did He fear? Yes, Jesus was terrified at what He was about to face. Jesus was about to endure something that was unatural to Him. He would die as a man with the sins of the world placed upon Him. Jesus died the same terifying death that a lost person dies. Jesus did not go to hell to be tormented but died separated from the Father. How beatiful to come to the realization that when we suffer Christ can sympothize with us. No Jesus dont know what it is like to be addicted to Meth, but He understands the overall temptation of the flesh. While realizing the humanity of Jesus is beautiful, to think that Jesus did not suffer as a man is sad. Only God can separate Himself from Himself. Our finite minds cannot comprehend the humanity of Jesus therefore we make comments like, "Oh yes Jesus was beaten, betrayeda and crucified but He was God" But He was also my kinsman redeemer. He was a man just as you and i (no all you preachers i am not saying Jesus had a sin nature), but i stand on the belief that while in the garden as Jesus prayed, if God would have given any other way for mankind to be redeemed, Jesus would have taken it. There was no other way, Jesus had to die,Jesus knew this thus He prayed that the Father's will be done and not His own. Jesus loved mankind in that He stripped Himself of His rightful glory. He became flesh, he had human fealing, sadness, happiness, many times He was agravated at His disciples. One time He even cleansed the temple. Every trial, tribulation and temptation i suffer, Jesus knows and is able to sympathize with me.
For the sake of producing "fair and balanced" scenarios, I suppose one could state if "There is no fear in love," then Jesus who loved could have no fear. Also God has not given us the spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind, all three of which Jesus possessed.
David began the 27th Psalm, "The LORD is my light and my salvation; whom shall I fear? the LORD is the strength of my life; of whom shall I be afraid?"
So I suppose one could argue Jesus did not fear, for when one trusts in God, he has no reason to fear. Jesus would have trusted the Father to take Him through the hard time, and even in the forsaken time, He would have trusted the Father to raise Him from the dead.
(before anyone comments arguing with this one, read my previous two)
By the way: I found it very hard to come up with this argument. I suppose I truthfully can't see any theological or biblical reason Jesus couldn't have been afraid, though I don't know for sure.
Imagine yourself in Jesus's (the man) place. You are about to be sold out by one of your closest friends, arrested, beaten, mocked, spit upon, betrayed, denied, whipped, stripped and humiliated, nailed through your hands and feet, thorns shoved on your head, your father turning his back on you. Now tell me how you wouldn't fear that?
JamesCharles, you say that when we trust in the Lord, we have no reason to be afraid. No, not in our spirit. Yet in the flesh, we do fear, for it is not in our flesh that we have strength, it is in our spirit (our salvation, our faith, our trust).In the spirit, He was just as us, not afraid. Jesus being "made flesh" He, of course, then feared what was about to happen. He laughed like us, cried like us, felt like us, everything that we go through in the flesh He went through. To take away one of our emotions from His emotions would be saying that He didn't suffer like us, was only partly like us, and that's not the case.
I guess I'll throw my hat into this theological arena by beginning with a question.
Why do we think it is a sin to question God? Isn't it our right as the children of God to go to our Father and ask questions like why, what if or how?
I see nothing wrong with Jesus saying to his Father in so many words: Is there another way? If not I submit to this plan before me.
I don't necessarily feel that he was fearful, in a sinful way and I also don't think he was insane to want to go the cross (this is from my bro-in-law's statement when I quoted Hebrews 12:1,2 to him on the way to the airport for the National meeting).
In his humanity (Lucious Louie, I agree with most of what you typed), Jesus experienced everything we experience. "He was in all points tempted like as we are" which means that he understands what we go through. The only obvious difference is that he always made the right choice while we sometimes don't and fail and commit sin.
We know that in this instance Jesus did NOT sin but to answer Bro-In-Law's question: Did he fear what lied ahead of him--no because what lied ahead of him was the Father's will and He knew EVEN in his humanity that victory is what lay ahead.
To answers the second question: what did He feel, and what did His words mean? I BELIEVE (to biggest words in a preacher's vocabulary right?) he felt pain. Physical, emotional and spiritual pain.
In John 13, after Judas was dismissed from the Upper Room, Jesus said NOW IS THE SON OF MAN GLORIFIED. In other words the dominoes had all been set up and now the first one had dropped.
The cross was looming and in his humanity he was in pain and his words of wanting this cup to pass were referencing this exact moment in time of pain in the Garden. Nevertheless, I think he also told his Father that if this was the cup, then he would drink it. Had Jesus ever suffered the way he was suffering at this moment? I don't think so, yet it was the birthpains, the tremors that were leading to the ultimate suffering and seperation that he would enure upon the Cross.
Thanks for answering my unstated curiosity of who L.L.L. was. I couldn't figure it out. Hello brother LeBlanc.
OK preachers, let's assume the Lord has laid it on your heart to go to a third-world country where many have been killed for believing what you are about to be preaching over there, there are wars going on, and the country is in constant turmoil. Are you afraid to go? You are doing the Father's will aren't you? Why should you be fearful?
Why would Jesus go to the Father not once, but three times, asking if there was another way, if He was not afraid? He was in agony, His sweat was like drops of blood the scriptures say. Where did this agony come from? Why was He sweating? I say, Yes, He was afraid. Yes, He feared what was about to happen.
The spirit is always willing, but the flesh is weak.
I just want to clear up something. I certainly didn't disagree Jesus was afraid. My first two posts (as Brother Mike noted) leaned toward agreeing Jesus was afraid. I only posted my third comment to give some sort of an argument stating Jesus wasn't afraid, thus fulfilling the "fair and balanced" request Brother Mike made. Even in the end of that comment which I tried to come up with an argument against Jesus being afraid, I stated it was difficult to find that argument. It wasn't my view.
Even so, after Brother Jason's comment, I now can honestly say I don't know if Jesus was afraid or not. I can see it both ways. Jesus asked for any other way, because he was fearing what lie ahead, or he was asking for another way, because he was currently in pain, and was asking for that current pain (the beginning of the pains) was almost unbearable, and he was feeling pain as opposed to fear.
Either way, I think we all agree Jesus did indeed suffer in every point like we do, and probably suffered fear at some point in his life. We also all agree Jesus suffered pain like we do and worse. He was indeed 100% MAN as well as 100% God.
We all agree on these, even if we don't know the exact emotion Jesus was feeling when he asked the Father to let the cup pass from Him, whether the cup of current pain or the cup of what he must face in the future.
Who is Lucious Loui? Anyway as to the many comments I add this. It is not a sin to fear. When i get lost in the woods and it gets dark, and i have no light, i get scared. You could say that i am afraid of the dark. This is not a sin. As to Jesus our minds cannot fully comprehend how He could be God and man at the same time. Somehow Jesus separated the two. Jesus never ceased to be God but in the flesh he never ceased to be Jesus the man. The human emotions of Jesus were not disallowed by His existing as God.
Hey does anyone want to know what Cathoics believe?
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