No trap here. Just curious. In what order would you place the following financial priorities of the church?
1. Care for the Pastor.
2. Necessary building improvements (ie. a new roof)
3. Unnecessary but desired building improvements (ie. a gymnasium)
4. Mission support
12 Days (Day 12)
8 years ago
19 comments:
1.Care for pastor
2.Mission support
*Another question to muddy the water: Should churches who cannot support their pastor "full-time" even be supporting missions, except by example or perhaps special offerings?
3.Get the roof!
4.Build the Christian Life Center (gym).
*Note: All of this reverses if socializing is most important and the church is trying to run off a sorry pastor!
1. Care for the Pastor.
2. Necessary building improvements (ie. a new roof)
3. Mission support
4. Unnecessary but desired building improvements (ie. a gymnasium)
1. Mission support
2. care for the pastor
No pastor suffers in the long run by promoting missions giving
I have been in a situation where the church and it's pastor suffered for supporting mission giving. It was a WONDERFUL church, but the pastor had to work another job, and due to location, could not give nearly as much to the church as was needed (which tore him up inside), yet the extra given to missions would have been enough to help him give full time to the church.
1. Care for the Pastor and His needs; Not his wants. Missions work starts at home. Seems many supports a missionary so he can be full time while their pastor runs to and fro to make ends meet.
2. Necessary building improvements. If your building is falling down around you why would God want you to fix someone else's.
3. Mission Support.
4. Unnecessary but desired improvements.
Speaking as a bi-vocational pastor I am a little biased. A Church should pay her pastor what she can. If it isn't enough to meet the pastor's needs then he needs to work to support his family.
Does a Church need a full time pastor to grow? No! Let's consider for a minute what a "full-time" pastor does versus a so called "part-time" pastor.
From 8-5 how many visits does a "full-time" pastor actually make? Who does he visit? The elderly and shut-ins, correct? Cannot a bi-vocational pastor also make those visits? I find the time.
Let's consider study time. How much study, which the Bible says can be a weariness to the flesh (I know what that means), does he get done? How many sermons does He get done? 3 per week. I find the time by staying up later, getting up earlier and managing my time as a bi-vocational pastor. I spend all week mulling the sermons for the coming week.
Is the Church I pastor suffering because I'm bivocational? No! We are growing and going for the Lord. It is the Lord's Church and He is the one that uses people, not only pastor's to grow His Church.
I get really aggravated at our State (TX) and National meeting with Pastor's coming for support...GET A JOB. Now, if they want to come because the Church needs help paying the light bill fine, but I think pastors working is a good thing because it affords them another field to work in for the honor and glory of God and for the betterment of the Church.
betterment is a cool word.
1. pay the pastor what they can
2. mission support
3. fix the building (if mission support is being done right the Lord will provide the funds to fix His building.
4. unnecessary but desired is a little wrong way to word it...if it isn't needed why build it? If you need a family life center to accomodate a ministry, build it and the funds will be there too!
Sorry about my tangent but I get a little aggravated with being lessened b/c I'm bi-vocational...I may work another jopb but I am still a FULL TIME pastor. I am thankful for you fellas that are full time and don't have to work...I wouldn't have to either if I wasn't so much of an idiot with my finances.
Bro. Jason I thank God for men like you who is till not to goos to work. Thank you and may God continue to bless and use you. Great comment and you are right.
Big J.
What ministry could a church have which would necessitate the building of a gym? Whether or not a church wants one is up to them. I have often thought, "that space sure would be nice." But where is it's position in the list of "priorities"?
Upwards Basketball would neccessitate the use of a gym...or I guess they could use the catholic churches gym (see Micah's blog for those problems).
The AWANA program takes alot of space from what I have heard.
Ministering to the physical needs of the membership...instead of paying a gym membership to some worldly institution they could give that money to the Lord for missions use or better care for the pastor.
I answered the question about placement in the list...last of your 4.
That's my two cents and I shouldn't be blogging before Church I need to get a sermon ready...oh wait...as a bi vocational pastor I already have it done.
I enjoyed church this morning (I always enjoy it when I catch a glimpse of God, whether at church or home.)
Please pray for us tonight, we are voting on a man. Please, may the people vote according to God's decision.
I didn't mean to demean you or any other bi-vocational pastor. I don't think it is any less or you are doing any less. I just meant to say I had been in a situation where I lived about 1 to 1.5 hours away from the church. God opened the door of opportunity for a job, in which it was required (and I do believe with all my heart this was the job wanted me in) to work from 6 or 7 am and get home after dark usually around 8 or 9 pm. That was Monday, Tuesday, Thursday and Friday, sometimes Saturday. My studying therefore took place Wednesday before church, and Saturday. Going to school, I also included school work. I got up around 5:30, worked, came home, ate, and did study and homework until around 2 to 3 am.
I beat myself up all the time for not having time to go visit the shut-ins, elderly, or sick as often as I wanted to. I felt miserable, because I was doing far less than was my desire, and was already running myself ragged on sleep deprivation. Not to mention I was depriving my wife of time we needed to connect - instead giving that time to Greek and Hebrew homework (which was my fault.)
The point is, the church was a WONDERFUL church, but we sent much to missions, and I could've done so much more had they been able to give more to me so I could have found a job that required fewer hours.
I would be willing to be bi-vocational for the rest of my life. I just believe if a church can support the pastor, but is giving it to missions instead, it should consider this carefully and prayerfully.
Keep doing what you're doing and may God continue to bless You for your dedication and service.
PS. I also like the term betterment.
I just wanted to say as a member of Lakeview Mission in Farmerville, that without your support we would be struggling, and I mean struggling. Farmerville isn't a very prosperous town, and the main source of income, the chicken plant Con-Agra, is about to shut down.
As far as the members, we have good offerings but even the tithes aren't enough right now to pay the building note, expenses, and pay a pastor.
Thank the Lord for churches, including some of yours, in our association that send us support.
A church may exist without a full time pastor or even without doing their best paying a pastor, but a church has no reason for existence if they lose sight of the GC (in part, supporting missions) as the main purpose of their existence. Even a pastor and especially a church should seek first the kingdom of God and all these things (a pastor's salary, a job and his needs) will be added to him.
I was an associate pastor (bi-vocational) receiving $25 a week. I was a bivocational pastor receiving from $85 to $17 per week (depending on what kind of sermon I preached. I was a bivocational pastor of another church doing whatyever it took including school bus driving, substitute teaching, my wife also working at times and have never felt my support comes before doing missions. I have every respect for bivocational preachers.
Church work is not first about paying a preacher, it is about preaching the gospel to all the world. Physical needs should never rank higher than spiritual needs.
I suppose I just feel a church needs a pastor to continue growing closer to the Lord and to lead them in their efforts of reaching their local mission field (which I always assume to be more important than a foreign one). If I was spending too much time witnessing in my town to go on a mission trip, I think I'd be in in the right. Same with time as is with offering, if I'm giving so much to support my local mission field to be able to send any my personal self to a mission, I think I'd be in the right. If my church gives just enough to support its pastor and has naught left over for foreign in effort to help it carry out the Great Commission to its local mission field, it'd be in the right. After all, should a pastor have to be bi-vocational and live over and hour from the church when the missionary is full time?
I just feel (I see no Biblical basis on either side) that the local going and teaching is more important than sending money to someone else going and teaching.
PS.
DON'T GET ME WRONG ON THIS! I love, support and love to support mission work. I just feel if it comes to a pastor or the mission getting paid, let's take care of the home field first. Other churches will continue to support the other missions, but it is given to ourselves only to support our own church and pastor.
At times Stockwell's finances have been extremely low. When I say low I mean like 1500, 2000 in the red!! Never did we cut mission support. They continued to support me and I did help Bro. David on the side a few days a week to help my family, but never was there even a discussion to stop or cut mission support which is set at 13% of all tithes and offerings. Know for the last three years praise God we are not only breathing easy, but able to pay on the principle of our building note. I believe God blessed our giving just as he does his children that give of their tithes to the storehouse.
Focusing on 1 part of the GC leaves a church neglecting 2/3 of the GC! A church should tithe just like a pastor and all the other members. Like others, the tithe should come off the top - first in priority! Mission support is a church's tithe. A church that does all 3 parts of the GC will do better than one that focuses on 1 part to the neglect of the others.
Dunno if a tithe is necessary to a church. If so, I'd like a verse.
I agree a church should do all three parts of the great commission. Win souls, baptize them, then teach them the all things.
But a church should also fulfill all other commands given to it, such as have a bishop, love one another, and stop blogging when your wife and you are in the hospital and projects to have a baby within the next 8 hours.
1. Care for the pastor.
2. Mission Support.
3. Necessary Building Improv.
4. Unnecessary Building Improv.
A couple sets of logic or reasoning is set forth in the comments.
1. Let the pastor remain part-time and support the mission works so they can be full-time!?
2. Support the pastor more, so he can be full time, but support less missions.
3. If supporting less mission points is wrong, then supporting more mission points is right.
4. Therefore if giving 10% of a churches offerings to missions is good, then giving 100% is better.
5. Therefore lets just get together at someone's house and have a volunteer bring a devotion and give 100% of our money to mission work and we will more spiritual than those other groups that call theirselves churches and waste their money on a full-time pastor.
Our church is at 40% on mission support by the way and PRAISE THE LORD for full-time, part-time and those with no-time pastors!
1.Care for pastor
2.Mission support
3.Necessary building repairs
4.Desire building wants
How we should take care of things at church
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