Old and well-worn are both the discussions and debates about different Baptist groups and their inability to work together. The present day factions were formed many years ago and most of the brethren who were directly involved in the splits have gone to be with their Lord. So, those of us who are serving today are left to work with the bounds set by the problems of yesterday.
We learn of some of the pivotal points of yesterday's divisions from the remaining eyewitnesses, but most of our understanding is a result of the written documentation which bears testimony to the sad events of the past. But since recorders bore witness of the events with an influx of their own prejudices, no declaration of absolute truth exists which one might stand on and declare it as an unchallenged truth. So we are left to look elsewhere to see why different groups of Baptists to not work together for the cause of Christ.
How and why Baptists originally split may be debated, but the fact that they hold different views about how mission work is to be done cannot be contested. So it stands to reason, since different Baptists groups differ on how to accomplish the most foundational purpose of associated work, then they are unable to work in joint capacity for the cause.
The reason most Baptists groups are unable to work together is found in the purpose for associated work. The foundation, upon which all associated work is established, is the endeavor of mission work. The intent of spreading the gospel to the entire world and establishing churches is universal among Baptists, but how it is accomplished is where the breach becomes irreparable.
Some struggle with this divergence and desire to be able to fellowship on the common points and overlook the major points of associated work. This is akin to the adage of “majoring on the minors and minoring on the majors”. In any effort of joint cooperation, if the two parties have differences relevant to the task at hand, and desire to work together, they will have to come to some sort of resolution concerning their dissimilarities.
Usually what happens when differences are present and the two parties are willing to work together, one of the two parties is willing to lay their view on the shelf and make their stand a “non issue”. Concerning mission work, I believe the Lord gave His authority to preach, baptize, teach and establish churches to His local, visible New Testament church. No other group, board, committee, convention or association has this authority. This authority cannot be re-delegated. I will not lay this principle on the shelf.
I can enjoy coffee at McDonald's with a Baptist brother although we may come from different associated works. But the church of which I am member cannot commit ourselves in any joint effort with those who hold an opposing view concerning the church’s purpose and responsibility. This being said, I think it wise to fellowship only with those who have built on the same associational foundation.
12 Days (Day 12)
8 years ago
52 comments:
Well put.
I agreed with most of your pontificating on this subject. To my consternation however I see that you concluded with a statement which is mutually exclusive to both my practice and principle. The statement under inquiry is, "I think it wise to fellowship only with those who have built on the same associational foundation."
First, allow me to say thank you for your wise choice of the word "think." Let it be known that none of the evidence rendered in this post was backed with Scripture.
Second, to fellowship is defined by the free online dictionary as: A close association of friends or equals sharing similar interests.
Friendship; comradeship. Let us therefore not make more out of "fellowship" than it really is.
Third, There are (most likely) churches in our association which are practicing things in direct contradiction to Scripture and our associational doctrinal statement. There are flaws,as you well know, in the way we practice some matters of mission work. Our principles as an association may look superior on paper, however, do they coincide with Scripture in practice?
Forth, I (in my opinion as well) believe that it is not wise for Baptist people to fellowship outside of the Baptist ranks. Within the denominational bounds, however, I believe each Baptist church should carefully examine each church they "fellowship" associate with no matter the associational label which is attached. If there are principle/practice differences then maybe one church should simply withhold fellowship. There are some local churches within other associations of Baptist which (in my opinion) are stronger than some of our own. History proclaims time and again (unless we do as the gnostics and claim there is no absolute truth) that due to power struggles and "who's better than who" attitudes our great work has been divided. This stench of pious behavior still today reigns among brethren of all associations of Baptist people.
Last, If the church be autonomous then so be it. Allow each church to carefully examine who she will associate and fellowship. Our foundation is not one which is built on an association yet it is one built on Jesus Christ. We focus on associations more than we do local church often times. I have friends in almost all associations of Baptist people and one thing I have found in common is that we all have areas of pride and disgust with our associations. The issue of fellowship has been taken to an extreme however by all parties involved. We make each other to be enemy rather than fellow laborer.
Let us be watchful in our efforts to do God's Kingdom work. Let us not associate with other churches simply because of what is printed on their sign. Let us look deeper in the doctrinal issues of Scripture to see with whom we are most compatible. Let us not live in fear to admit that the brethren and churches they pastor from the "other side" are local, visible, scriptual churches which are recognized by God and acceptable to fellowship and associate with.
Well, you said something about me not commenting anymore so here I am rearing my ugly "BMA lovin" head! hahaha!
I agree with almost all of your post, Brother Mike. The problem I'm running in to is understanding the last paragraph.
You can fellowship with a Baptist brother in a different work at McDonalds. Your church cannot join in missions efforts (or any efforts???) with those who hold opposing view of church's purpose and responsibility (and mission work - does this include ABA churches who do mission work differently?)
You can fellowship with those of other associations at McDonlads, but think it wise to fellowship only with those of the same association?
I am not arguing, or trying to prove you wrong. I TRULY 100% honestly am trying to understand this. Maybe my misunderstanding is in the definition of terms "fellowship" and "associate". If you could define these and their differences from attending a skit or music singing time of a single church of another association NOT on Sunday or Wednesday, it might help.
Before I respond to either Bro. Micah or Bro. Snyder, I must publicly extend this offer to purchase Bro. Micah a new thesaurus. Because after that last post I know that his must be worn out.
I would assume the difference would be found in reason for meeting.
On a personal level one can fellowship and associate with whomever he finds common interest. They could be saved, lost, pentecostal or Catholic. My two greatest friends next to my family are both members of dreaded 1st Baptist Church in Bossier.
However, on a Church level the CAUSE as a whole takes precedence. Would associating with Churches of false doctrine and false practices further the Lord's cause or hinder the Lord's Cause.
Take this for a BIBLICAL example Brother Micah, my dear friend, Acts 16. The sorceress was loudly proclaiming paul and barnabas as servants of the Lord...what did Paul do? Rebuked her and cast out the demon. He did not want to confuse his cause by associating or fellowshipping with false teachings.
There is a heresy house right around the corner from our church and they have a huge 200 ft. cross and a giant sign in front of thier building. I dont want them to advertise for our Church or our mission or anything on that board becasue I dont believe like them...same thing goes with the many so-called baptist churches in our area.
Just felt like throwing my two cents in the arena of skilled learners here...PEACE BIG J OUT!!
Brethren I believe we should consider all biblical views of any group of baptist church before I can join hearts and worship the Lord. No matter what type of baptist they are. No doubt their are some baptists churches outside of the A.B.A that are holding firm to the teaching of the bible. Have I been to one, nope. Do I know some preachers who are faithful to Gods word who pastor baptist churches outside of the A.B.A, yes I do.
But I will be blunt about this one thing. Fellowship with people that carry the name of cults like Methodist, Catholics, Penecost, some Baptist, Church of Christ and so one I will NOT find myself join with them in fellowship. I will not place my approval on their lies about my savior. Brethren it is just my oppinion and you can bash it if you like, but they lie about the blood atonement of Jesus Christ and therefore I choose not to be seen in any form of praise meetings, worship setting or anything that can resemble such gathering. The cause is greater than friendship my friends.
Hello My Brethren,
Bro. Micah it is good to have you back. My only coment concerning this blog and its comments is this--Who wrote that very well thought out and articulate argument for you Bro. Micah?
It should be against the rules to get English majors to write comments.
Oh Yes!!!!!!! Welcome Back to the Big Boy Blogospere
Yours Truly
CLIFFORD the bigest Red Dog
Clifford the bigest red dog... Does that bigest rhyme with digest? Hmmm... Brother Micah, can you get me one of your dictionaries please?
Big J - Are you conjecting that if a local, visible, scriptural BMA church desired to financially support a missionary which Stockwell Rd. sent out that you would oppose the financial support?
And are you also proposing that fellowship with scriptual Baptist churches of other associations could be likened unto participating in sorcery?
JP - Please expound on the associations of Baptist people which you would encompass into the Baptist "cult."
L.L.L. - Our Sunday School teacher is one of my deaconsand close friends. He is highly educated and thinks it humurous to teach me new words to add to my vernacular.
uh...what does conjecting mean?
It isnt actually a word but if you meant conjecture or speculate
or further meanings such as assume, believe, conceive, conclude, deem, estimate, expect, fancy, feel*, figure, gather, glean, guess, guesstimate, hazard a guess, hypothesize, imagine, infer, judge, presume, pretend, suppose, surmise, suspect, take a shot, take a stab, take for granted, theorize, think
I would say no I am not saying that.
I am saying that if a BMA Church, as you so eloquently pontificated wanted to send me money for our missionary I wouldnt refuse it...I also wouldnt turn down money from an athiest group or a lottery winner or a biker club etc etc etc. The Lord owns a cattle on 1000 hills and if he wants to sell a cow and send it our way that is the Lord's business.
Recieving monies is certainly not an equation to fellowshipping with them and affilliating pulpits.
The principle of Acts 16 is not so much the sorcery it is the confusion that was being caused for the work and Paul would not tolerate it.
I reckon my pontificating is done...I cannot wait until tintillating tidbits of volumuminous verbage are expressly expounded to my waiting ears.
I can use a thesaurus too.lol!
English
Verb - conjecting
Present participle of conject
I pray thee therefore tha thou mightest study thy sources before thou speakest.
You should try using the thesaurus more often along with an adequate dictionary.
I miss Brother Micah Carter!
and I miss Bro. Graft
Many but maybe not all Free Will Baptist. Some of them teach works for salvation. If they teach this they are a cult my friend.
Brother what is this all about. Why do you seem to be so hung up on this stuff? If you want to fellowship with any Church or group do it. But do not expect some on here to praise you for it.
You know as well as I do that most on here will not fellowship with any church outside the ABA and they have the right if they so choose.
Me, I take the pastor and the doctrinal beliefs of the church in which they pastor in consideration. Whether they be A.B.A, S.B.C, or B.M.A. If we agree on the doctines of the bible I have no problem fellowshipping with them.
By the way please stop using so big of words for my sake please. I have to look them up and its taking me awhile to read these. :-)
Let's not forget Primitive Baptists, Regular Baptists, Old Regular Baptists, Emergent Baptists, North American Baptists, and...
QUESTION: If a group of Baptist churches (with identical beliefs as us) carried on through the ages in some other country, and still exists today, it wouldn't have joined the ABA simply b/c it isn't in America. Would we be able to fellowship with them if they have EXACTLY the same belief set as you do, or must they be members of our association? What if they were even associational with the exact same monetary % suggestion for sponsoring churches like we have, and they are the "Austrian Baptist Association" or "Australian Baptist Association" or "Algerian Baptist Association"? If they are small, labeled ABA, and have the same exact beliefs, can we fellowship with them? Pastor their churches? Join in worship with them?
Brother James thanks for the additions of churches that carry the name Baptist that fit under the title cult. If this is what you meant of course.
To answer you guestion. I have never had to make the decision to fellowship or not to fellowship so rightly I do not know what I would do. But I think it would be ok. I THINK I would fellowship with them. Almost certain.
Guys I want to ask one question. What is this all about? Why does it seem some are so caught up on fellowshipping or not fellowshipping with churches or groups of religious differences?
Is it because of the M.B.S.F?
Is it because of friends that pastor in different associations?
It is because of employment? Not picking, just wondering why some are so hung up on trying to prove their side when they know they are beating a dead horse. Again just wondering.
I will attempt to reply to the following comment made by Bro. Joseph since it does apply to me.
"Why does it seem some are so caught up on fellowshipping or not fellowshipping with churches or groups of religious differences?
Is it because of the M.B.S.F?
Is it because of friends that pastor in different associations?
It is because of employment? Not picking, just wondering why some are so hung up on trying to prove their side when they know they are beating a dead horse."
First, allow me to free myself (can't speak on other's behalf). I have never promoted or even suggested the "fellowshipping" or associating with those of other religious differences. If by "religious differences" you mean other denominations.
Second, Our church does sponsor an MBSF here at SAU. We don't participate, however, in the ecumenical movement which is looked down upon by many including myself. Again, we don't associate with other religions! Difference in religions and associations. Our MBSF has students who are Baptist, Church of Christ, Methodist, Atheist, Catholic and even Hindu. You might look down on us for allowing them to come and participate but they do not lead in worship or teach lessons. They simply come and hear the Word.
Third, I do have a best friend (as you all know) who pastors in the BMA work and one who came from the BMA into our work. This has contributed some to me viewing associated work differently than many of you. I have seen my brothers be looked down upon and even talked down to and not given the opportunity to preach because of an associational tag. They can attend our seminary and preach in our "back wood" churches but not our other churches until they "get right" and join the ABA (as if it is a church). I know that some from the other associations view ABA as inferior to them. I am not, however, a member of their assoc. so I will try to help some of my brethren look past the assoc. label and evaluate the man himself.
Fourth, I think it is a sad day when we get so close minded that we consider the acceptance of brethren from other associations as "beating a dead horse." Close minded is the same as being flaming liberal...There has to be a middle ground!
Last, Let it be known that neither I, our MBSF nor Calvary Baptist Church participate in assoicated work with anyone from a different religion!
Would someone please look at how much emphasis is being placed on associations and not on a church!
Is my point not evident?
MBSF's have gotten a black eye in some associations because of some VERY liberal directors.
I am a fan of MBSF, I met my wife through MBSF and I got engaged at Budd Creek Camp during a Spring MBSF Retreat.
With that being said the difference in MOST MBSF's is that while they have students from all walks of life, all religious backgrounds even all colors it is not a Church and has never intimated that they are a Church.
Many other student groups on campus do act in a Church capacity and that is dead wrong...God did not give an auxillary that authority only to his Churches.
(authority is another big difference between ABA and BMAA Chhurches, I know becasue I used to pastor one and also went to thier national meeting once)
They are just an auxillary of their sponsoring Church. They are supposed to stand for the same doctrines that thier Church stands for while they reach out to college kids who will leave in a few years, hopefully having recieved Jesus and been indoctrinated in truth, and head back to thier homes and start new scriptural Churches becasue they realize that there are no true ones where they may live.
Basically, MBSF is an auxillary ministry of a local Church like our Seminary is or our ladies group or our youth ministry.
As top the pulpit affiliation, which is what it means to allow someone of another denomination to preach in the pulpit, I say it is up to the individual Church.
If Sis. Lulabell has a son that grew up in the Church and everybody knows him and he is pastoring a Southern Baptist Church what are the odds the Church would let him preach, even ask him to preach. I say very good.
Personally, I dont want to allow any person of another denomination to preach in my pulpit and there are some ABA preachers that I wouldnt let preach either.
Other denominations are close but there is a difference for a reason. What that difference may be insignificant but a difference nonetheless.
Bottom line is that each Church makes the call as to who can preach from thier own pulpit.
Big J - Well said and thank you for your defense of the MBSF work.
I understand the authority issue as well. A subcommittee should not have the right to place a man on any field at any time without the authority of a church. What if the power is given to them from a church to do so?
The Lord did not give the church the privilege of re-delegating her responsibility. One day, before Barry left for work he told Micah to mow the yard. Micah was tired and he really didn't feel like doing it, and besides, his little brother Ryan does a better job. So Micah convinced Ryan to do it. Barry comes home and the yard has been mowed. He enters the house and finds Ryan tired and sweaty while Micah is asleep on the couch.
Barry discovers that Micah did not do what he was told. But at least the grass got mowed. Should Barry be upset?
I would dare to say that this analogy doesn't do justice to the matter at hand.
Should then every member of Whispering Pines MBC gather around a candidate and baptize them together at the same time rather than "re-delegating" authority to you as the pastor to carry out the ordinance?
It would be impossible for every church to see after the needs of every aspect of associated work. Therefore, ABA along with other associations of Baptist set aside men or groups of men to watch after specific aspects of the work.
We have people to manage bookstores, print shops, literature etc...They have "authority" to spend our money, change our literature (to an extent) and "call the shots" if you will. Should every member of every ABA church gather in Texarkana to oversee the bookstore, print shop and literature process?
I know these matters may not be the key issue in this debate. Bro. Mike, however, likened it to mowing grass so I thought I could give some example which didn't pertain to the key issue.
TO THE COMMENT ABOUT BEATING A DEAD HORSE:
I cannot speak for anyone else. I cannot explain why anyone else is so interested in this subject. I can only speak for myself.
#1. It has nothing to do with job choice. I know it may appear this way, but for me, it isn't. I am comfortable with the decisions I've made, since they do not deal with worshiping together or fellowshiping together. It is the same (in my opinion that without hard evidence will not be persuaded) it is no difference offering a public education with people of the world or false religions than working in a hospital named St. Jude or any other Catholic hospital full of other people. It is a job, a public service. The preaching I do in Bible class is not something I do WITH other religions. When the church voted to allow me to teach here, they gave me authority to preach and teach the truth. I am preaching the gospel to lost children and children who belong to a false denomination solely on my call to preach, the authority given me by Calvary MBC to do so, and by the Great Commission given to all church members to teach.
#2. It has nothing to do with the M.B.S.F. I visited one, but I do not have all the information I need to form a good opinion. I lean towards disliking the one I attended, but again, I don't have enough evidence to form a well-educated guess.
#3. It has nothing to do with friends pastoring other churches in other associations of Baptist work. I only have a few, and I rarely get to speak to any of them.
Now, that leaves "why" I am asking these questions. Notice I haven't been defending a position one way or the other. I have been mainly asking questions, and then asking people to defend their answers with Scripture or logic. I am PURELY trying to find the best answer to this, and to do so, I want to hear all view-points.
Here is why. I've been told a great many things in life. Some true, some lies. I've believed many lies. As I receive questions (whether from young people at church, from adults I know, or from my own little pea-brained mind), I like to find a good answer. Especially when a young person in church wants further explanation. I usually know enough that if I want to, I can give them the answer that I've been taught that satisfied me until I began seminary. Now, however, I have been questioned about why we cannot fellowship in FCA, BASIC, 1st Priority, MBSF band, Music fellowships, etc. Some of the questions went beyond the typical things I've been taught.
Can I say "That's just the way it is, don't question it, accept it by faith that I'm telling you the truth" to the questioners? Of course. Is this really right, though? I used to accept that what my preacher or other preachers were telling me was true, based on my faith in them. But what about when they contradicted one another?
This is one of those subjects I've still not come to a complete conclusion upon. Some on this blog say it is OK to fellowship with a church if it believes like you, but is in another association. Some say it is OK to pastor such a church. Some say it is OK to pastor and fellowship ONLY ABA churches. Some say all ABA churches, while others say only a few.
Yet in all of this, only one has answered one of the questions I'd like to have answered. Which beliefs are the ones that will keep us from fellowship with (or pastoring) a church?
My dearest brother, I baptize as per authority of WPMBC. I am simply their agent. They have not re-delegated their authority to me. They make the authoritative decision for it to be accomplished. If I bore the authority I could baptize whoever I wanted, whenever I wanted, and would not need to bring it before them.
All of the other things you mentioned do not fit under the heading of church responsibility (Great Commission). The authority to preach, teach, contend for the faith and propagate churches lies in the authority of the local church. A board, committee or convention does not have the God-given right to these responsibilities. The things you mentioned,(bookstores, print shops, lit. etc) are only tools. So sovereign churches have come together and produced tools for each church to use to help them to carry out their responsibility.
And one other thing, you never answered my question. Would Barry be upset?
Bro. James, FYI
St. Jude is not a Catholic hospital. It might bear the name of a "saint". But it was founded by Danny Thomas not the Catholic Church.
Sorry Brother Mike. I didn't know. Maybe some other St. hospital then?
As I read this garrulous conversation, I couldn't help but wonder if any of your pompous heads have exploded. This particular expired equine, Bro.Joseph, has been severely pummeled and slaughtered to the point that his carcass is no longer recognizable. I wonder, in disbelief, why he is perpetually receiving such punishment.
Please, one of you "big dogs" dig the grave, throw that sucker in there and bury it! Of course, you'll come back later and dig it up again.
The feline has left the building.
Mrs. Julie - When you say, "dig the grave, throw that sucker in there and bury it!" Are you referring to Bro. Joseph? I couldn't help but understand it that way since you had previously said he was "perpetually receiving such punishment." We love our brother, no need to kill him off and put him out of his misery. :)
I wasn't going to comment again, but since Bro Micah asked me a question I wouldn't want to be considered rude, therefore I'm answering.
Bro Micah...I wasn't referring to Bro Joseph as the equine, I was addressing his comment about "beating a dead horse" therefore I inserted his name in my comment.
Did you realize you wrote "hints" instead of "hence." Where's your dictionary? :)
I own two kitties. My dog died. All this talk about animals is making me become watery-eyed. I would have wrote "tear up", but the word tear, as in tear-drop, also spells the word tear as in I am going to tear up that piece of paper. So I'm watery-eyed. :*(
No. Hence the reason for me saying that the analogy did not apply correctly or do justice to the matter.
As far as you being the agent of the church. I understand this principle and practice but you do what you do "per authority of WPMBC." As their agent they have extended you the authority to accomplish the job that they were commissioned to do. Right?
Mrs. Julie - Not sure exactly what you are talking about with hints and not hence...Sorry
From the other side of the Sabine River...."whew! haven't read that many comments in a while."
I guess Texas should just stay out of this LA/ARK matter. What do we know anyway?
Also from Texas, two questions (maybe we have a problem understanding your big bad words).
1. Is the ABA a denomination?
2. What is a cult?
Welcome Bro. Adrian. I appreciate your hesitance in getting involved in debate with such great theological minds. But the issue is not an Ark/La issue. As a matter of fact, spending 13 years in Jacksonville, Texas, the heart of the BMA, and my being affiliated with the ABA made me very aware of the issue at hand.
There have always been some brethren who have desired to bridge the gap existing between the ABA, MBA and SBC associations. I have no doubt that their intentions were noble, but the goal has yet to be accomplished. I personally know one man who pursued this endeavor.
The end result is sad. This man never preached anything heretical. He is as solid as a rock. But today he enjoys very little respect from his preacher brethren. He started preaching various meetings at churches of the BMA and SBC in an effort to bridge the gap. He longed for the day that these barriers would fall.
But the barriers are there for a reason. The differences in our associated works are not imaginary, as some would suppose.
Many of the ABA brethren lost respect for this man because he attempted to remove lines of differences, not by persuading others to his side, but by pretending they didn't exist.
If one would pay close attention the lines of difference are obvious. If not, there would a number of preachers in the BMA trying to cross the lines. There would be a number of preachers in the SBC trying to cross the lines. And there would be a number of preachers in the ABA trying to cross the lines.
If the lines of differences really are minuscule why is it that, since the splits occurred, we do not see a world wide effort at reconciliation among the Baptist ranks? As ecumenicalism runs rampant, the overwhelming majority of Baptist preachers think it best to stay and work within the bounds of their own associational efforts.
This is written by an ABA preacher who spent 13 years working in the heart of the BMA (and has many BMA preacher friends). I come from a long lineage of Independent and SBC preachers. Some of my kin still living and preaching in these works today. I was even saved and baptized in a SBC church.
The brethren working in these other associations are my brothers. I wish them no ill, and I certainly pray that God will bless them as they do His will. But we have differences on the role of associations. To me, these differences are not petty nor are they always monumental. But they are sufficient enough that they cannot be ignored. They are sufficient enough to warrant separation in associational capacity.
Everyone is going to have to make his own decision. If you choose to ignore the lines, focusing on that which we have in common, go right ahead. I will not despise you nor no longer acknowledge you as my brother. But be forewarned, you are going to lose the respect of many men who view these differences as significant.
Micah, you still haven't answered my question.
Bro. Mike - If you go up 4 comments from your last one you will see the answer to your question. If that answer doesn't apply perhaps I misread or overlooked the question you are referring to.
I, personally, am not tryin to bridge a divide nor am I tryin to ignore the fact that there are differences between associated works. If there were NO difference we would all be under one associational umbrella. I believe that is would do much more harm than good to our Savior's cause if we were to all merge into one association. We are (probably) the smallest association out of the three mentioned, ABA, BMAA and SBC. We have enough problems with power struggles within our own much less if we brought in the power struggles from other existing associations.
Since the BMA was what you referred to most due to living in the heart of BMA country I will discuss them. Our difference with them lies in church authority and I agree that this is a huge issue! one of epic proportion. This is why I do not agree with the BMA practice of a missionary subcommittee placing a man on the mission field in the case of an emergency. This is not something which can be overlooked, and I understand that. I do however also know BMA churches which do not agree with this practice therfore they do not participate in the BMA associated work. Are they considered a BMA church? Yes, by record and name but not by participation and practice. Technically they are in the BMA association but more Independant and autonomous in practice.
The SBC have more issues than I care to discuss. I believe the heart of the issue is ABA vs BMAA anyway.
I pray that brethren don't look down on me because of this issue. I don't know how many people respect me anyways. ha! I know there are differences and there always will be. I simply ask that we look further into our associational relationships. Who do we associate with and why? Is it because they are "one of us" or because they stand on and practice Bible Doctrine?
Nor has anyone answered my questions about those true churches who have continued to exist before and now along side of the ABA, that never joined the ABA due to being in other countries. They may not even have an association. The other question is, if we believe it is not OK to fellowship with these Baptists who stem from the same forefathers as us, then should we be arrogant or prideful enough to say that we (the ABA) are the only truly right Baptists.
I would beware this statement, simply because it would almost say our forefathers before the ABA were not truly right. Is it hard to fathom churches that continued in other countries who held the same views our forefathers did, and are simply not ABA b/c they did not come to America?
Good grief Micah, answer the question already...
WOULD BARRY BE UPSET THAT YOU DIDN'T MOW THE GRASS LIKE HE ASKED ASKED YOU TO, BUT YOU GOT RYAN TO DO IT?????
My reference to an Ark/La matter was simply that all of the posts were from people in Ark/La.
I have never felt led to "bridge any gap" with regards to churches....what would be the point? But I've always tried to be open & friendly with "all the other Baptists" on a personal level & try to articulate the reasons for my beliefs.
*I think I'd still let Billy G. say something if he showed up :)
Shut Billy G. up... I mean shut him down!!! LoL.
If my Dad had told me to do such, he'd probably have been OK with me getting someone to help, as long as I was helping with them. If Brother Micah had enticed his little brother to help, his Dad (just speculating here) probably wouldn't have minded, so long as Brother Micah was involved too.
So if we apply the same to this church issue, maybe the LORD wouldn't mind, as long as one of our church members are on the board? lol. Just kidding, of course.
How many times must I say NO to Bro. Mike's question. I answered it told him where to find it incase the answer was over looked...It's still there to go look at but if looking up is a problem...NO! THE ANSWER IS NO!!!
So, you disobeyed your dad, but since the goal was accomplished, he is going to overlook your disobedience and say "at least the job got done"? I'm not buying that for a minute.
Good to see you last night, even though you were staring at my girth while I was elevated.
Julie, I was out of the state for a few days and away from my computer.
Bro. Micah. Good comment
You said Fourth, I think it is a sad day when we get so close minded that we consider the acceptance of brethren from other associations as "beating a dead horse." Close minded is the same as being flaming liberal...There has to be a middle ground!
That statement "Beating a dead horse was not intended to be taken the way it was. Sorry about the confusion.
Bro. james also good comment. I was simply wondering the reasons behind "Beating the Dead Horse."
:-) Didn't mean it in a bad way. Please forgive me guys. So I can come out of the grave. ;-)
Guys I've not for one minute thought that anyone here would join hands with a false religion outside of the baptist ranks.
Micah I do not look down on you or anyone on here. This has been healthy for me as I have read and digested the comments of us all.
I do not look down on any preacher who is preaching the truths about God and his book no matter what name the church chooses to put on their sign.
Me I choose to worship with Churches of "Like Faith and Order." No matter what they call themselves. I have just found those who are of like faith and order to be in the A.B.A. If there is a Church outside of this association who carries another name and they are of like faith and order. YES. I would fellowship with them.
Come on guys let's revive this horse! Don't let it die...haha
Due to the fact that miracles have ceased we cannot bring back a horse that has beaten to death. LOL
Brother Joseph, I believe you are wrong. This is one of the rare Baptist miracles one can see in his lifetime -- resurrecting a dead horse so they can beat it to death some more. If not here, just watch other Baptist blogs and the Landmark Baptist forum! :-)
I feel bad for our Yankee Baptist Brethren who know little about horses or the beating techniques. Can we please do something to help our Northern brethren get along with us?
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